Guernsey's continuing steps towards a sustainable future

Episode Transcript:

Rosie 00:05
Hello and welcome to the latest sustainable finance Guernsey podcast which is rated one of the top 10 most useful sustainable finance podcasts by the green finance guide. Guernsey is one of the jurisdictions leading the way in green and sustainable finance and as part of this podcast series where you speak to and learn from some of the leading global figures in the field. My name is Rosie Allsopp. I'm communications director here at Guernsey Finance and on the podcast we normally discuss trends within sustainable finance and how Guernsey as a leading IFC is supporting the transition to a more sustainable economy. But we've got a bit of a treat for you today. On this episode, we'll be looking more at how Guernsey as an island is looking towards a net zero and nature positive future. So I am absolutely delighted to be joined by Deputy Lindsay de Sausmarez and Jessi Jennings. Lindsey is president of the committee for environmental infrastructure within the government of Guernsey and Jesse is chief executive at the Guernsey nature commission. Welcome, Lindsay and Jessi. Thank you.

Lindsay 01:06
Thanks for having us.

Rosie 01:07
thank you for joining us. So should we kick off? Tell me a little bit about yourself and your careers and how you came to get here, Lindsay? Shall we start with you?

Lindsay 01:18
Well, my professional background is actually in media production, mainly. So all sorts of different kinds of media, spanning film, TV theatre, and I'm a Guernsey girl originally, but I'm lucky to have lived in lots of other countries as well. And I entered politics in 2016, when I was elected to our government, which we call the states. And I was elected on to the committee that I'm now the president of size, reelected in 2020. And I've been the president of that committee since then. And it's got a fantastically interesting and very broad mandate, but I find it incredibly interesting. You know, I've also got a personal level of background in environmental activism, I suppose. And so I've long been interested in the politics around climate change specifically. And it's great to be able to do something on the ground that is helping to shape guernseys future in a positive way.

Rosie 02:20
That's fantastic. Thank you, Jessi. How about you?

Jessi 02:23
Well, my interest in the natural environment really stems from a young age, I think I watched Free Willy when I was about a year and a half, two years old. And ever since then, I've been obsessed. So I went to university and I studied marine biology and oceanography. I did a post grad and environmental health and then I came back to Guernsey and worked for our environmental regulator, as part of the state of Guernsey. For several years, I completed my post grad. And then I moved away from New Zealand and I worked for central government over there doing station environment reporting, and circular economy, data related to management. And then I went into the private sector for a little bit. And I was marine ecologist over there in a large environment, environmental and engineering consultancy. And actually, it just moved back to Guernsey in February of this year from doing that to join the team at the nature commission and to take on the mantle there. And I mean, during my time and Guernsey I've been very involved in the natural environment more generally the La Societe team in particular. And yeah, there's some really amazing things to get achieved here in that space. So I'm glad to be back and to be able to contribute again.

Rosie 03:30
And yeah, hopefully we were hearing some more about some of those amazing things later on. So Lindsay, when you're looking at implementing the goals of the states of Guernsey's climate change policy, how important is the nature Commission and the state's strategy for nature? Well, one

Unknown Speaker 03:47
of the things I most like about our climate change policy is that it is actually quite holistic. It doesn't just look at mitigation and adaptation, as I think, you know, most standard climate change policies do. But it also acknowledges guernseys role in other ways. And actually, our role as a green and sustainable Finance Centre is part of that climate change policy. It's one of those core pillars, as is in fact our overseas aid and development program. Because we recognize that through those activities, we can actually have a disproportionately large and positive impact that goes above and beyond what an average group of 64,000 people may be able to do. So we recognise that we've got a really important role in the global transition to the green economy in that respect. And another thing that is actually at the heart of our climate change policy and baked into it is our strategy for nature. And that is really important because it is in so many ways the flip side of the same coin, and where climate change is big and global, and scary and it It can sometimes feel that we're a very small fish in a very, very large pond. What I love about our strategy for nature is that that is something we have got direct influence on. And we can make a direct and local and tangible benefit. And it's so important in terms of the interface, Jessi is far better positioned, obviously, to talk about the, you know, the sort of technicalities around any of that. But our strategy for nature is, you know, fundamentally important part of our climate change policy. And the nature commission is a really important part of bringing that to life. So it's a wonderful organisation, quite nearly set up. We're very proud of it. And it really is, you know, a fantastic organsation that brings together all the expertise, but also all the community effort that we really couldn't implement that strategy without. Absolutely.

Rosie 05:54
So Jessi, tell me a little bit more about the Guernsey Nature Commission, its aims and how it collaborates with government and the other sectors as well.

Jessi 06:02
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, The Nature Commission, we're an independent charitable organisation. And we look to work with everybody. So with schools, businesses, a community government, the third sector, and the public more widely, with an overall objective, which is reversing the decline in biodiversity within a generation. We want to protect and enhance Guernsey's natural environment. And that's not just for the environment, but also for the health of everybody's well being and for the health of our economy as well, these things are all interlinked. And so to do that we are all our work streams are aimed towards encouraging our island community to connect with nature, caring for nature, and identifying the pressures on our natural environment and working to reduce those increasing awareness and knowledge and support for nature. And that's through really good education, workstreams, and information sharing as well, and helping to build the evidence base. And so that's really, really important, make sure we have the data for effective management of the environment by everybody. We're also involved in aiding in the identification of natural capital. And of course, we support the sustainability agenda that's gathering momentum locally and globally as well. So aside from all that, as Lindsay says, We're contributed to this strategy for nature. And we played a critical critical role in implementing that and ensuring guernseys biodiversity is protected and enhanced, and that it's valued in governmental policymaking and economic planning as well. So that in and of itself requires us to have a really strong relationship with States of Guernsey. So we've been working with them on a prioritizing the workstreams under strategy for nature, so that we can really see those outcomes and strategies to start to come to fruition. And there's a lot there. And as much as we might like to we can't do everything at once. So it's really important to get those priorities right. And we've also been doing a fair bit of work with primary schools. As I mentioned, education is a really big thing for us. So we've been out more recently with a bunch of primary schools, getting them into the field doing our BioBlitz project. We also offer our support to the teaching community getting quality nature, education in the Bailiwick Island's curriculum as well. And we're very lucky to have Angela Salmon, who's our Head of Education at The Nature Commission. So she's spearheading our educational side of things. She used to be a teacher. And so she's really well placed to be progressing that workstream over the next wee while. We also are looking to work more with Guernsey businesses. But I'll talk a little bit more about that I think later on and about how important it is for us to be working with the local community as well.

Rosie 08:35
That's lovely. Thank you. So Lindsay, you attended COP28. Last year, as did I but I think your job was a little bit more exciting than mine, as part of the delegation. Now, the Paris Agreement was a main focus of that trip. Can you tell us a little bit more about it? And for people who might not be familiar, can you explain what the Paris Agreement is and what its objectives are?

Unknown Speaker 08:59
Yeah, I think most people will be familiar with the phrase the the name, and it's really in its most simple term, a global agreement to limit the warming that we're experiencing, to keep it well under two degrees, which is an important threshold. So two degrees of warming above pre industrial levels, although there are other levels of ambition beyond that, as well. And the exciting thing about our visit to COP28 was actually that was where the Paris Agreement was extended to Guernsey in our own right, which is a really important thing for us as a jurisdiction. And it does mean that we are and can be held accountable for our own pathway to net zero. And because actually in many respects were quite different from the UK. You know, it doesn't make sense to lump us in as part of their sort of accounting process without any distinction and the ways in which we want we need to respond as an island as a community as a jurisdiction are potentially quite different. So it's a really great thing we can show on the international stage our commitment to that international obligation. And yeah, we're obviously work is well underway.

Rosie 10:22
So the extension of the agreement sees some changes to the way in which guernseys environmental reporting takes place. Can you talk us through what that means for Guernsey moving forward? And some of the strategies we're implementing as an island? Maybe first looking at energy policy currently in future?

Unknown Speaker 10:40
Yes, I mean, there are so many different aspects to what we need to do to respond to climate change. And mitigation is obviously a very highly, highly prioritised focus. And that that's obviously one of the main objectives of the Paris Agreement is mitigation act type activities. And I suppose the easiest way to explain it is that when we look at ganseys carbon footprint, much of that, like another jurisdictions comes from the use of energy. And so we've got an energy policy. And we've more recently, last year, in fact, September and last year, agreed electricity strategy, which takes us to 2050, which I'm pleased to say was very widely supported, both within government parliament and also within the industry in the community. And we're in a quite fortunate position in some ways that our electricity is already quite well, decarbonized. But we've got a growing population. Like other places, we've got increasing demand for electricity. So actually, we need to make sure that we can keep our electricity supply decarbonised and decarbonise it further, you know, as our population grows, as demand grows, and also improve our energy security and resilience, provide greater into independence in terms of our electricity supply, which is really important. We're an island, you know, so this is something that matters. And obviously, we need to make sure that that is achievable, and affordable. So we need to balance a whole range of different considerations. And in short, our electricity strategy supports greater generation of the local generation of renewable energy. And so at the moment, we import a lot of low carbon electricity through an interconnection with France, because geographically, that's our places mainland, of course. But electricity strategy supports a greater, much greater level of renewable, locally generated renewable energy in the form of solar PV, and offshore wind, and further into connection as well to improve that energy security and resilience and that we've done an awful lot of work on it. And that's a pretty optimum mix in terms of affordability and some of the other criteria as well. So that's where we're headed. There's a huge amount of work involved in that. But just taking offshore wind as one example, it's a really good example of where it interfaces with the natural environment. Because one of the most essential parts of that work is a marine spatial plan, we need to understand what our natural assets are in terms of the marine environment, so that we can understand that impacts how to mitigate or avoid those impacts, and any potential opportunities as well and make sure that we are maximizing opportunities while absolutely minimizing or negating any risks.

Rosie 13:51
Fair. So is that all the considerations as part of the climate change policy? Or is there anything else that you're looking at?

Unknown Speaker 13:59
Oh, there's so much that we're looking at so much. It's really, really hard to know where to start and finish when we're talking about it. If you're looking at it in terms of the mitigation aspect, obviously, there's a there's a whole side of things around adaptation, you know, we're an island, it really matters. Sea levels really matter to us. coastal defences are very important to us. So you know, we've got unlike everywhere else, we're experiencing things like changing rainfall patterns, and I'm sure Jessi is a much better qualified person to talk about some of the environmental threats that we're seeing much. You know, we're seeing certain invasive non native species, for example, as a result of climate change, all sorts of considerations around the adaptation side, both marine and terrestrial in terms of environmental threats, things like, you know, flood risk mitigation, both in terms of coastal inundation and actually because our rainfall patterns are changing as a result of climate change. And so we look wherever possible for nature based solutions, that's a really important part of the adaptation piece. But when we look at the mitigation side of things, which is, understandably, many people's primary focus, and I find it easier to explain to people in terms of the, the sources of emissions as they are at the moment. So we know that a big chunk of our emissions come from transport, and most of that is on island transport, actually. And then we know that much, you know, another good quarter our emissions actually comes from heating, and to a degree cooling of buildings. So it relates to the sort of energy and thermal efficiency of our buildings, residential and commercial. And we also know that waste is historically had been really quite a big contributor. But I'm pleased to say that's one of our success stories. So we will look at the different areas where there are missions, obviously, we've got sectors like agriculture, where famed quite rightly, for our Guernsey cow, which is something very close to my heart, best milk in the world. If you're not in the island, and you can get your hands on any, I do recommend it. It is wonderful, wonderful stuff. And so you know, our agriculture, our dairy sector is very important to us from a sort of cultural and heritage and from an environmental management point of view. And so there are lots of different considerations. And it really is difficult. I mean, I could talk for hours about any one of those subjects. But it has to be a holistic approach. It has to look at not just this is quite important, not just fixate on on carbon emissions, we have to look at it through a lens of sustainability and through a lens of a circular economy. And we have to look at it through a lens of nature as well, because that's such an important, important aspect.

Rosie 16:57
I agree. So we've talked about COP28, which is climate change conference. And we should also mention cop 15, which was the last biodiversity focused cop. We were very lucky that a Guernsey delegation was able to attend, including our Director of Sustainable Finance, Steff Glover. And Jessi tell me how important are events like the cops to continue developing climate change and biodiversity solutions?

Jessi 17:28
Yeah, I mean, hugely, hugely important. And they drive global efforts to protect biodiversity, and associated climate change. mitigations as well, like Lindsay alluded to earlier, each jurisdiction has to tailor the appropriate way to apply it in their own areas. And that's obviously going to be the case with an island jurisdiction, like Guernsey as well. But that international consensus and agreement is really, really important to ensure that you realise the benefits and realize those meaningful positive changes. And what I really enjoy seeing is that cop emphasizes the role that the natural environment plays in mitigation and adaptation to climate change. And that's the nature based solutions that we were talking about just then. And it really recognises the interdependence between climate stability and healthy ecosystems, because those you just cannot separate those things at all. And, you know, with a healthy ecosystem, you are going to have climate stability. So one could argue that you should address the biodiversity crisis before you look to address the climate change crisis. And, and as well as that coffee is hugely important for information sharing strategies, technologies, science and research findings. And then the public awareness impact they can have is pretty significant as well. And the other key thing I want to highlight, as Lindsay mentioned, is that they foster accountability. And that's really essential to ensuring that those commitments are realised.

Rosie 18:53
Absolutely couldn't agree more. So for The Nature Commission, why do you think it's so important to work with the local community to deliver its goals?

Jessi 19:04
I mean, there's two main reasons The first being that people will care for what they care about. And there's a variety of different reasons for that, you know, values and identity, social influences, personal benefits, including financial life goals, their own experiences, but once you get somebody to care about a thing, then they will care for that thing as well. So that's a really a really important thing to note. The other aspect is that the third sector or the voluntary sector, in Guernsey, we rely on it hugely for several different things. And the natural environment is absolutely one of those things. And the local community collectively hold decade's worth of knowledge about our natural environment, how it's changed over time. So we really want to be able to harness that. They can provide local support for things that they're invested in and think are important locally. They can ensure continuity and Ambit because our community's quite widespread, if when we're talking about monitoring and data collection, it has a much more significant impact than individual expertise, collecting data and doing that monitoring. So if we can expand that out to the community, the outcomes that we'll start to see are going to be much better. So source of the data to inform those outcomes is going to be much better about more available. And I mean, the community can share the information with family and friends as well. So that's exponentially extending the reach of the impacts as well. And there's also lots of other benefits such as inclusivity, and also the unengaged community versus the engaged community. So it's been shown that resilience and adaptation are greater, and communities that are engaged in their natural environment than communities that aren't engaged. And so that's really important reason to bring them along in the journey with us and to get them to care for our natural environment.

Rosie 20:58
That's a really good point. And I hadn't thought of that, you know, talking to more senior members of the community about what they remember, you know, regarding the natural environment, and yeah, really making use of that.

Jessi 21:11
In the narrative, it's just so key to making them care about and passing that information down to their families and to their friends. It's, yeah, it's a ripple in the pond. Really?

Rosie 21:20
Yeah, absolutely. I just, yeah. Love it. So as well as working with the local community. How are you working with businesses and, you know, the sort of corporate sector to implement the goals for the strategy for nature?

Jessi 21:35
Yeah, that's there's several indicators in the strategy for nature, which directly relate to the role that businesses and corporates can play and achieving positive biodiversity outcomes. One in particular is about the uptake of biodiversity considerations into business activities within Guernsey. And that's really important in order for us to understand how well the value of nature is being considered and acted upon at the commercial and business level. So to that end, the nature commission is really keen to engage with businesses and corporates to see how we can help progress that, and it's different for each. And so we are sort of finding out what that looks like for different businesses and different corporates, and seeing where we can slot into help there as well. And we're also looking to get more involved in the environmental, social governance and the Corporate Social Responsibility space. And we're developing what we're calling a menu of opportunities for businesses in relation to their CSR or ESG commitments. And that includes volunteering opportunities, educational activities, such as providing lunch and learns for corporate so that they can see how the business activities directly relate to a local environmental context, as well as funding opportunities. And we're looking to develop this in collaboration with all the natural environment organizations across Guernsey so that we can improve the on island availability for local businesses to volunteer to learn, to engage with and contribute to our natural environment.

Rosie 23:01
Lindsay, how important has engagement with the local community been implementing the changes that you've made so far?

Unknown Speaker 23:10
I think in a word essential, but I think it's our superpower, actually listening to Jessi, I think as we are so blessed to be an island, we are an island community with what is termed by I think sociologists or someone very high levels of social capital. We're a very well connected, trusting close community. And I think that is absolutely our superpower.

Rosie 23:38
I agree. I'm not easily to replicate as well.

Lindsay 23:44
we have had, you know, visitors to the island who have have been really struck by our social capital, and it's a slight, it's a slight sidetrack. But I think a really good illustration of this is we've got, we've got something that we all take for granted, but actually just doesn't really exist in many other communities, which is what we all fondly refer to locally as hedge veg. And so we will sell excess produce from our gardens, in a little box, literally, in your hedge on the road on the side of the road. And, you know, it's all done in an honesty system. And people are really struck when they come into Gansey from the outside that this is a thriving little mini economy. And it really does wonders, and I just love the way it also it keeps up with technology and you can now even pay by card at some. Yeah, exactly.

Jessi 24:35
Theres now an app to find all the hedge veg.

Unknown Speaker 24:37
right. I love the way that it's enabled by by technology. So it's a wonderful tradition that is probably, you know, centuries old, but But it's moving with the times but I really do think when it comes to environmental policy, both its development and its implementation, it's it's such an important part of the success and I meant didn't earlier that era electricity strategy was very broad, you know, very strongly and widely supported by industry. Well, that's because we involved the community, we involved industry, we involve the business sector in the actual development. And that is how in a lot of policy areas that I've been involved with, certainly, that's my preferred approach.

Rosie 25:21
Taking people with you on that journey.

Lindsay 25:23
Absolutely. And for a really practical, you know, reason that actually those are the best people, the people on the front line of delivering these things are the best people to tell you when something isn't going to work the way you think it might. And so actually involving them in in the development program pro, you know, program itself means that you're likely to get much better, much stronger, much more resilient ideas that then result in a much stronger and more workable policy at the end of the day. So I think electricity strategy is one of a number of policy areas where that has been a case in point. But also, I think it goes more broadly than that. And I think especially when we're talking about sustainability, which is about being able to meet the needs of our community, without compromising the needs of future generations, I think these future generations are super important. Now, I will put my hands up to having a vested interest, I have four children on my own. So I am, you know, I have a direct interest in making sure that the future generation of islanders is going to thrive, and we're not, you know, scattering their chances by making any short sighted decisions now. So I think they are the most important stakeholders when it comes to those longer term issues, and especially around climate change, because they've got more of their future ahead of them. And I'm pleased to say that it was actually young people making their own voices heard. That was what catalyzed the creation of a climate change policy in Guernsey, it was really, really direct, it was wonderful to see. And, you know, young people got up and marched on our parliament building, and you could just feel the change, you could feel the political winds, you know, changing direction in that moment. And it wasn't just a one off event, it was the sort of culmination of a lot of youth led action, which I was really pleased to see. But that's been fantastic. And that actually, they have continued young people and children have continued to be very directly involved in some of my favorite examples of success in environmental policy, especially around climate change, have actually been led by young people, sometimes really quite young people, we've got a wonderful program, or there is a wonderful program that I think all of our schools in the island, certainly all of our state schools are a part of, which is the UN rights respecting program. And it's all about putting the voices of young people at the heart of what they do. And it's had some really striking effects. Because young people have been empowered and enabled and encouraged to speak up about what matters to them. And we've seen some amazing things come about as a result of this, I named the primary school where two of my children attend, has seen a remarkable revolution, I think it's fair to say, in school transport, as a result of these children speaking up, they actually use their voices to say, we've got a right to a healthy and active lifestyle, we've got a right to a safe and clean environment. And we would like to campaign for those rights to be better implemented. Thank you very much. So if we can please minimize the amount of traffic around our school. And if we can please maximize the opportunities to get to school in more sustainable and healthier ways, then that'd be great. And they came up with some wonderful ideas. And they have done it and it's just extraordinary, you know, we've got very high prevalence of car use, typically in Guernsey as as a whole if you look at us at population level, but that school now has turned things around. So that actually it's a very large school for a primary school, over 550 pupils, and obviously, a decent number of staff as well. And fewer and one, fewer than one in 10 of those pupils now are driven to and from school exclusively. So the vast majority will walk will ride will get the bus or will have what's called a blended journey where they might be driven a bit but actually walk the last 10 minutes or whatever it is. And it's had a revolutionary effect not just on the school and the school community but actually on the parish as a whole

Rosie 29:46
as a parish is because other schools are looking at how they can implement it themselves as well. So I agree with you is revolutionary, and I love the fact that it's come from young people.

Lindsay 29:55
Absolutely yeah,

Unknown Speaker 29:56
just empowers them, doesn't it really if they show that their voice can make it And then they're going to take ownership of that. And that's really amazing. I love to see what they're going to do.

Lindsay 30:05
While they're very keen to, you know, support their peers, actually in other schools, and I take any opportunity to go in and talk, if I'm invited into a school by, by students or by teachers, I'm there in a shot. And it is wonderful talking to them, because they have such great ideas, and they want to talk to you about it. And they just come up to you, and they're like we're doing it is. And I think there's also something really powerful, which I think is called the ripple effect, apparently. And we see this in waste as well, you know, we introduced a really successful waste strategy a few years ago. And so many times, we discovered that actually changes in households were driven by the children having a go at the parents, you know, oh, come on, you shouldn't be putting that in that bin, that's recyclable, you know, and things like that. And, and so they are fantastic forces for positive change. And I think the more we can harness that, and enable it, the better. So I'm a really big fan of community involvement, whether that's at industry level, at business level, at community level, or at schools level, you know, I think it's all really, really welcome and really effective.

Rosie 31:22
I agree. So you touched on Guernsey's leading waste management strategy. And that reminds me of the conversation that we had at COP on the Island of Hope stage where we discussed it, you know, the amazing journey that you took everybody on, in order to, you know, increase waste management. It's internationally recognised as best practice, how is going to cease position unique? And where can we look to lead others in the future?

Lindsay 31:53
Well, I think one of our particular challenges and opportunities is in the fact that we are an island. And I think so to provide a little bit of context around this. Our we used to manage our waste by landfill, which I'm sure putting it in a big hole in the ground. And we were blessed in inverted commas with a selection of large holes in the ground, because we also have a history of quarrying. So you know, historically, there were there was a range of holes in the ground to choose from. And the simplest thing before anyone really knew any better, I was just to plunk all our rubbish in there. But obviously, awareness grew over the decades, postwar decades that that was really had some significantly negative environmental impacts, I mean, not just in terms of emissions, but all sorts of environmental risks as well. And so really, as awareness internationally grew about the problems associated with landfill, the the island looked to do something a little bit different, running out of holes as well, we were running out of suitably sized and suitably located holes in the ground. Yes, that was also an issue, which really focused the minds. And I have to say, I was not in government, I was very much on the sort of community side of things jumping up and down about the need to do something a bit more sustainable at this point. But we did have a couple of what I think of as false starts where politicians being, you know, human, and doing what many politicians do, I reached for a sort of shiny silver bullet solution in the form of a technological answer, option. And there was there were a couple of different plans to have an energy from waste incineration plant, on on the island and the island. But the problem with that would have been as many people in the community very vocally pointed out that, that actually incentivized in a slightly perverse way, the creation of waste, because in order for that to be in any way efficient, it needs to, you need to sort of Feed the Beast, yeah. And actually, it massively disincentivized all the things higher up what we call The waste hierarchy, which is the prevention of waste, the minimum minimization of waste, the reuse and repair phase, and then the recycling, obviously. And I'm really disincentivized, those very, very important tiers of hierarchy. Because to maintain an efficient level of incineration, you needed to keep your waste volumes up. And that really went against the grain. But it comes back to I think, this idea of our social capital and us being an island community. Because I think one of the things that really got the community up in arms about it was the fact that we have a very direct relationship with our island environment. And it's a very small island. None of us were very far away from the landfill. We knew we could see we could smell what happened to our waist when it went into a big hole in the ground. And I think actually that was a real benefit because Some people I think had a more direct relationship with waste than perhaps they might have if they lived in a big city somewhere where it was a bit more anonymous. And you know, you never saw what happened after you check things in a black sack. And what was amazing was that after the politicians made the decision to go for a more holistic, a less technologically focused, and a more behaviorally and socially focused policy, they got the community involved in developing that. And I think that was where we got it right. And again, they had this massive consultation exercise, consulted every conceivable part of the community, got young people, the third sector businesses and dividuals involved the young, the old, benefiting from a lot of that knowledge that you were talking about earlier, Jesse, from older generations, who are actually very, very good at things like make do and mend. And things high up The waste hierarchy. And what resulted was a waste strategy that is based on the principle of waste minimization. So we want to prevent as much waste from arising in the first place. And then any waste that is created, we want to make sure that we minimize it. And then we want to make sure that anything that can be repaired and reused is, and only then we look to recycling. And then we look to energy recovery. And we want to minimize the amount of disposal that takes place. And I have to say it has been, as you mentioned, in your very kind, intro on this, it has been very successful. And it is something I'm often invited on to webinars, for example, to explain to other jurisdictions, especially other island jurisdictions, how we got to the place where we got to. And you know, in its first year of implementation, for example, we saw an 11% decrease in the overall volume of waste. And we achieved a 73% recycling rate, which is really phenomenal, even at a global level. So that's why people are interested to find out how we did it. And I think the answer in short, is through the power of the people. And

Rosie 37:09
that journey as well listening, making it a two way process, and all of that good stuff. And now I want to ask you about something that you touched on earlier. So as part of your role in the government, you are also responsible as a president for environment and infrastructure for infrastructure. So how do you see that perceived conflict between the need for investment in infrastructure on island, and keeping to our climate change in nature commitments?

Lindsay 37:38
I mean, I really liked the fact they're under one mandate, actually, because they used not to be under one mandate. And I think in other jurisdictions, often they're not under one mandate. And I think it's so often the case that one is pitted against the other. So infrastructure, the need for infrastructure is pitted against the need to protect our environment. And in my experience, the environment often comes, comes, you know, comes out of that process as the second Yeah, second place. And so I think having them under the one mandate is actually a really good opportunity to make sure that when considering your infrastructure needs, you're also taking into account the need to protect and enhance the natural environment as well. And actually, that are areas where those two objectives can align. And you can see mutual benefits as well. So, you know, I mentioned earlier, the fact that our electricity strategy is supportive of locally generated offshore wind power. And that means that that gives us a really good platform to understand our marine environment better, and make sure that we are putting in adequate protections for, you know, the parts of our marine environment that really need those protections. And actually, it probably gives us a platform to enhance certain areas as well and make sure that we're adequately avoiding and mitigating any any risks that might arise through that. And that I don't think we shouldn't look at infrastructure as inherently anti environment. I think there are forms of infrastructure that are well aligned, and increasingly, actually, in terms of nature based solutions and things like Sud CMA. So when it comes to flood risk mitigation, for example, we've got a lovely example of a school quite close to here, which is used to write wonderful rain gardens and things. It's on a very steep hill. There's a sort of a Victorian drainage system which can be quite easily overwhelmed. intense rainfall and actually using nature which provides a wonderful level you know, rash of color and greenery in a school environment in an urban school environment also helps to mitigate a climate based risk. So I think it's a really wonderful example of low tech infrastructure, inexpensive, actually very cost efficient, which is also helping to support environmental objectives as well. So I think the two can align really quite nicely. And that's why I'm a really big fan of nature based solutions, which can work on a number of scales from that kind of micro scale up to much bigger scales as well,

Jessi 40:33
whilst also addressing our climate change, when it's good.

Rosie 40:37
see you nodding away there. What are your thoughts on how best to support nature while also supporting infrastructure investment?

Unknown Speaker 40:46
Yeah, just to echo what Lindssy said, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. And I think their perspective is that they have have had to have been up until now. But they really don't have to be and but the key thing to remember in order to support nature, while also supporting infrastructure needs is that you must have the information available to be able to make an informed decision about what and where you're developing your infrastructure. Without that information, you just cannot expect to have any good biodiversity outcomes. And so that data again, to go back to that evidence base that is really, really key. There's a thing called the environmental mitigation hierarchy like The waste hierarchy, which in a very similar way, but simply talks about the avoidance technique and the mitigation technique before we think of any other ways of avoiding harmful impacts to biodiversity from a development. And so applying those techniques is quite is normal practice and lot of developed countries now like the UK and New Zealand, so for anybody that's listening and wants to find out more isn't familiar, and the UK National Planning Policy Framework, paragraph 186, goes into a little bit more detail about those techniques, the avoidance, the mitigation, etc. And I think that's something that we'll hopefully begin to see in Guernsey in the not too distant future. So yeah, just to reiterate for biodiversity, but biodiversity impacts to be understood and appropriately avoided and mitigated. It is essential that the information about the natural environment at the site where the proposed development is is being talked about is known that we have that data. And that ensures that we can find the balance between meeting our infrastructure needs, while also ensuring protection enhancement of our natural environment and all of the ecosystem services that it provides and that we rely on.

Rosie 42:33
Absolutely. Now, we've only got time for one more question, Jessi, it's for you. What's coming up at the nature commission? And how can people get involved locally? And internationally?

Unknown Speaker 42:45
I mean, we've got so much going on at the moment. So if anybody listening would like to know what we're up to, on a day to day basis, we're very active on social media. So you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, X, I think it's called now. And we've also recently rolled out our 2024 Summer system science program. And we're looking for volunteers to get involved in that over the summer as well. So that's all about essential data collection about our natural environment. And using citizen science, which is a collaborative way for the public to get involved in important science and research without having to have expertise prior experience, the only thing you need to have is an interest, you just have to be interested and willing to come along and learn a bit more. The nature commission is going to be running training workshops. So if people want to find out how to volunteer, they can just come along during the weekend at the weekends. So just get in touch if if you want to find out more. And citizen science is a great way to connect with nature. And the projects that we're rolling out this summer are national projects. So they've been implemented in the UK. And the great thing about that is that it gives us a picture of not only our natural environment in Guernsey, but also across the across the British Isles as well. So we can better understand what needs our support and how in terms of our habitats and species. So yeah, encourage anybody and everybody who would like to volunteer to get in touch and find out more. So our web address is www.naturecommission.gg. And our email is office at naturecommission.gg. So yeah, please do get in touch we can, we've got all the details that we can share out. Another way that listeners can get involved is to support the niche commission by sponsoring a project or by donating to our work program. And as I mentioned, we are an independent charity and in order to ensure that we can achieve our aim of reversing the decline in biodiversity within a generation. We do rely heavily on generous donations from individuals, communities, businesses, etc. But by being a part of that, you'd be contributing to financial resources that will influence policies, business practices and community actions towards a more sustainable and biodiverse future. So we'd love to hear from listeners who would like to be a part If the nature of missions future and our natural environments future, so yeah, please do get in touch as great.

Rosie 45:04
Thank you very much. And if you want those addresses again, they will be in the show notes. And I'd like to thank Lindsay and Jessi for joining us on the podcast today. It's been fascinating to talk with you both about Guernsey's journey towards net zero and embracing nature on the island. I'd also like to thank our listeners and if you enjoyed the discussion, we've got a selection of interviews on the sustainable finance Guernsey podcast channel. Check them out by searching for sustainable finance, Guernsey wherever you get your podcasts. We'll also have links to Lindsay Jessi, and as I said earlier than each commission in our show notes. You can find out more about Guernsey and our specialist financial services sector by heading to our website, guernseyfinance.com. And we look forward to welcoming you back on the podcast with our next episode, but until then, it's goodbye from Guernsey.